Forever Evil – New mini-series ignites lively discussion, near firing of reporter and,… a love letter to Geoff Johns????

Chuck:

“Forever Evil” Launching in September, the seven-part mini-series will be written by DC Entertainment’s Chief Creative Officer, Geoff Johns.
Yeah! I mean Booo. Or is it meh?

Personally I’m no fan of John’s.  I found his work on Lantern boring and convoluted. Thoughts?

http://www.icv2.com/articles/news/25877.html

Oh September is also Villain’s month each title will get a one shot villain book.
http://www.icv2.com/articles/news/25879.html

Roe:

The term “universe-wide crossover event” makes me cringe. Because I don’t want to buy 500 titles I don’t normally read just to know what Batgirl’s latest issue means. These crossovers are one of the reasons I stopped reading comics 13 years ago.

Having said that, I like the Villain Month idea. One shots, I like. I can buy my Joker issue and be happy.

Chuck:

I agree Roe that’s why I gave up on ever knowing all the subtle nuances of any comic universe.
I still don’t know exactly how Damian died. I’ll find out sooner or later I guess.

Roe:

I almost bought the Batman Inc. issue, but realized I was getting sucked in again. Why did I want it? I didn’t know what was going on in that storyline. I read Batgirl and occasionally, Batman and Nightwing. So I don’t know how Damian died, but it’s moot since he’ll be back, I’ll wager, by Fall.

Rob Base:

Hey DC welcome to “Marvel” 1987, Geoff is over rated and he will never be a Mark Waid.

Geoff only looks good because he is at DC. I hate these giant cross overs. I didn’t mind them once every few years but its the norm now.

This is another reason that I’ll just read Wikipedia

Bob:

Guess its just me. Sorry I have this bad habit of collecting superhero books because they’re fun. And everyone loves villains. I probably won’t get every crossover except the titles I get monthly. Or if it’s a villain that particularly interests me.
I believe they’re doing them as point one issues so you can actually just skip that one if it offends you so much.
I’d like to point out this is The New 52s FIRST company wide crossover and others have been contained with in the family titles and it’s happening in September which has become DCs event month ( new 52 and Zero issues)
I’m a big John’s fan and so I have confidence this will be well done and built from his ongoing threads in the JLA and JL titles. ( and if you think Catwoman is really dead … I feel bad for you ).
Comics are supposed to be fun to read above all else or what’s the point. A month full of villains showcased… Sounds fun to me

Rob Base:

Ok Chuck you need to fire Bob lol. I wish it was as simple as just liking fun books. I love fun books give me Secret Wars back any day. Hell Onslaught was amazing but it becomes tiring after a while to have mass cross overs.

Nancy:

I love Geoff Johns but I haven’t read much of his stuff lately so his quality may have declined as happens with many of them (Mark Waid included, sorry Rob Base ;) ). I hate crossovers though. I greatly cut down my comics for years because of them and I will always skip issues of my favorite comics that are involved in them.

Bob: ( blatantly ignoring firing comment )

But there done in such a way now ( by both the big 2 ) that you don’t need to get every issue and now you don’t need to get it at all if you are getting the monthly book because of the .1 or AU enumeration they give the books.
So, there is an event mini that you can get or not get, crossovers in every title you can get or not get without missing out on the main story and no real interruption in your monthly book or collection if you choose not to get that titles crossover.

Bastards giving us options like that!

Chuck: ( also ignoring the firing comment )

I agree in theory Bob. I too read comics because they’re fun. But universe-wide cross over? Smacks of a cash grab to me. The villain one shots will be just that (one shots) and probably lots of fun but the “event” will be all-consuming and you’ll need to buy every damn book just to know what’s going on, just my opinion of course lol.

I didn’t really care one way or the other about John’s till I tried to slog through the Green Lantern garbage. After that I was fairly anti-John’s but as a comic fan I try to treat every writer’s new project as a new reason to love (or not love) their work.

That being said you can bet I’ll be waiting for a trade, or reading it on Wikipedia. 

I’ll also be interested to see how many “canceled” characters show up in one or two issues of the crossover (but have zero real impact)  to attempt to boost sales.

Bob:

Of course its a cash grab. They’re businesses. Plus it might get people to try books they didn’t before. So more people will buy comics and these businesses stay open and produce more books for us to by.
It’s all about asses in seats.
Sure you can turn people off sometimes with too much stuff and the big 2 take about a lot of shelf space, but they have big universes so they can. It’s up to the reader to decide what they want to read and eventually what stays or doesn’t on the shelves.
Any shared universe is going to have crossovers. Always did. Valiant has done it. Old Image, Wild storm, Top Cow, IDW ( Infestation? ), Dark Horse.
It’s easy to say you don’t get crossovers when the books you get don’t crossover with anything. And they still charge for those other books last I checked. Everyone is grabbing our cash. Because we’re insane and love this stuff.
They’re f’ng fun! C’mon stop being so jaded. The event is 7 issues. The villain one shots are just that. What you never bought a book because it had a flashy cover or a caught your eye b/c of the character it showcased.
It’s “all-consuming” for a month. Probably gives the regular creative team or just the artist a break to catch up on their schedule and if you despise it so much you get a month off your comic budget!
I Love Super Heroes dammit!
I feel like Eddard Stark in Baelor’s Sept at this point. You’re all bloody Lannisters.

P.S. John’s Epic Green Lantern run and his numerous contributions to the re-imagining of the DCU and its continued evolution is one of the most pivotal works in modern comic history.

Juan: ( stepping between the sword and Bob’s neck )

I for one enjoy a good company wide crossover. I prefer the team books so when it’s one big cluster duck, I enjoy the interactions. True that the crossovers of the last decade have been over the top and costly prohibitive, but I’ll consist the new 52 event for my pull list.

All Time favored crossover: Crisis on Infinite Earths.

Chuck:

Secret Wars is still my favorite. Till the whole Marvel shakeup tried to ruin that retroactively as well.

Crisis was pretty cool though

And believe me I don’t want to sound like some grumpy old guy (whoops too late), I think cross-overs and team books rock. It’s the ridiculous “event” books. The shakeup the whole universe books. That just annoy the  stuffing out of me.

As an avid comic book reader of the 70’s and 80’s I miss the little editors notes all over the place (as seen in #xxx) that made it feel like one whole real universe. They made me want to read other titles and back issues.


But the last 10 or so years? Money grab after money grab.

Bob:

Thank you Juan. Don’t feel so lonely anymore.

Secret Wars
Infinity Gauntlet
Crisis ( any of them! Lol )
Our World at War
DC 1 Million
Annihilation
Midnight Sons
Onslaught
World War Hulk
Ah screw it just about any of them

I miss those editors notes sooooo much. Nothing made me happier than jotting down an issue # and then going on the hunt.
Internet ruins everything

Juan:

Secret Wars is your favorite crossover? The one conceived by Marvel and Mattel to promote the new toy line? Not a cash grab at all.

Marvel Comics’ Editor-in-chief Jim Shooter

“Kenner had licensed the DC Heroes. Mattel had He-Man, but wanted to hedge in case superheroes became the next big fad. They were interested in Marvel’s characters, but only if we staged a publishing event that would get a lot of attention, and they could build a theme around. Fans, especially young fans often suggested to me “one big story with all the heroes and all the villains in it”, so I proposed that. It flew. Mattel thought that kids responded well to the word “secret”, so after a couple of working names bit the dust, we called the story Marvel Super Heroes Secret Wars”

Source: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secret_Wars

Roe:

That’s pretty much how I feel, Chuck. I do love a good team up-again, I recommend Dynamite’s Prophecy trade-but when it becomes a yearly/semi-annual/quarterly thing, I groan.

Onslaught/Age of Apocalypse was great, as was Secret Wars. I’m catching up with the Siege/Fear Itself trades and enjoying those. One of these days, ill get to Civil War and Avengers vs X-Men. Because they were always my go-to faves. If it’s a good story, I’ll wait for the trade.

Infinity Gauntlet and Crisis went without saying for me, but I thought in retrospect that I should probably confirm that.

Bob, I have a deep and abiding love for Cersei Lannister, even though she’s an awful human being.

And I bought all the Age of Apocalypse action figures.

Chuck: (picking up on a lost thread )

Saying it’s done because it’s a business is an excuse. Would we put up with a network that ran a show like Burn Notice and then had a commercial saying “Do you love Sam Axe?” Check him out in his crossover appearance on HBO’s Dexter (oh sorry if you don’t have HBO you’ll have to buy it this time)? Love Jason Bourne? Be sure to look closely at the next 6 Bond movies! He’s in at least a scene or two…

I hope DC does it well, I hope this isn’t the floodgates opening on the every-six-month universe-ending-we’ve-gotta-save-it-all-event. Cause that’s weak, and lame, and sad. Tell better stories than that.

And you’re right! We are insane and we do love this stuff! But I must disagree with one thing, Geoff John’s Green Lantern Rebirth, and Sinestro Corps War were horrible.

Other than that I support your insanity and love how much we all love this stuff!

Bob: ( responding to Chuck’s Geoff Johns comment )

Garbage??? Really. Yeah it only made Hal Jordan cool for the first time, added tons of mythos to the concept of the Lanterns. Spawned 3 successful co-titles. Led to Blackest Night, Brightest Day, And Flashpoint led to a movie being produced ( granted not the best one ) an animated series an tons of all ages merchandise and made Green Lantern a household name.

” I do not think that word means what you think it means “

Rob Base: (still wondering why Bob hasn’t been fired )

Hal was always cool, it was horrible writers like Marz who said Hal wasn’t cool and he couldn’t write for him. Making different lantern corps don’t make a book interesting.

Look at the Marvel family from Shazam to Capt Jr they took the mythos too far. Superman as well. The Lantern Corps was big enough.

That being said if you like it I’m happy for you. Geoff apparently has a strong fan base.

Chuck:

Did I actually say garbage? Sorry can’t look now children hanging from my ears.

If so that was too strong. I (for one) found the mythos John’s added to be boring, convoluted, and annoying. But that is me. Lord knows he sold books. The books you cite as coming next were also tiresome, convoluted, and boring. Again this is only my opinion. Sad part is as a boy I was a huge fan of The Green Lantern and The Green Arrow. They were probably my favorite DC characters. What we have now (and have had for the last 10 years) has done nothing to make me enjoy either character again. But I keep trying. Every change, every mini reboot, every new series, I try again.

Hal Jordan cool? Coolest damn Hal Jordan I ever saw was in Justice League – New Frontier.
That was a crossover- team book / film I could get behind. (Remember the movie was based on Darwyn Cooke’s graphic novel) 

Juan:

You actually used the word horrible.

I wasn’t following dc during the whole Rainbow Corps thing, (although I personally would join the fuchsia corps) so can’t give you an informed opinion overall on Johns’ contribution.
But I can say my favorite crossovers were the JLA/JSA annual adventures of the 70’s.

By the way, I believe Secret Wars was also the first company wide crossover.

Bob:

Hal was boring from day one up until he killed a bunch of folk and caused zero hour… There were tons of writers before Marz who did the same old big scissors and punching bag uh oh watch out for that yellow insert-any-object-here crap that made Kyle Raynor a breath of fresh air to anyone under the age of 50 at the time

And you would’ve hated my Geoff Johns love letter article if I had gotten to post it before my comp crashed.

New Frontier was awesome. But non-canon.

Nancy:

Bob – will you marry me? YES YES AND YES to all of this ^ !

…and just for full disclosure I loved Secret Wars too. It was where I developed my undying love for Doctor Doom…not evil, just misunderstood…

Roe: ( attempting to change the subject and get back to raising her kids )

I do love Doom.

Nancy:

and I totally had the toys. I think I still have Spidey in his black suit and Doom running around somewhere.

Chuck: ( apparently not too concerned with raising his )

All the heroes of that era had lame powers (or use of them at least) Hal’s were just the most obviously lame. 70’s Supe’s and Batman were pretty lame too, I was talking about personality. Hal was/will always be my favorite. Kyle Rayner was the pompous ass right? I jumped off the DC train for a good long time and have no real memories of him.

Actually I would’ve loved your Geoff John’s love letter article, even if I disagreed with it.
And I believe the non-canon stuff is usually some of the best. And it doesn’t screw up continuity for those not interested in event books!
But when a company, be it Marvel or DC, ret-cons every change they ever make what is truly “non-canon”.

Bob: ( deftly avoiding Chuck’s attempt to steal more of his work time to discuss Retcons! )

Sorry (Nancy) I’m spoken for lol

Secret Wars 10… Best cover ever!!!!

CoverUpSecretWarsNo10

Juan:

They secret wars black suit spiderman is worth a lot Nancy. Despite the toy tie in, the secret wars was a great story.
Technically, you can defeat Hal with a pencil. 
Johns did elevate the GL Corps to be major players in the DCU.
Bob never ceases to amaze me with his knowledge. 
I like pie.

Bob:

Thank you kind sir!

Chuck:

Gotta say this has been one the most lively email discussions we’ve had!

And on that note here is a link to now published unpublished Geoff Johns love letter:

Green Lantern’s Light – Slightly Dimmer Without Geoff Johns – a love letter from Bob Lazauskas

*And despite the title of this article Bob was NEVER in jeopardy of being fired, maybe I would’ve held back his preview copies for a couple of weeks though BWAHAHAH

- Chuck the editor monkey

** Some language has been toned down in an effort to keep this blog NC-17, at least LOL

- Chuck the editor monkey

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